Author Topic: BOOST QUESTION  (Read 6690 times)

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Offline SmokeyJ

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BOOST QUESTION
« on: March 04, 2011, 05:37:40 pm »
This is my first fresh turbo car. I have a low compressi on motor that is fresh (0 miles). I wanted to break it in before put turbo on it. Will this harm anything

Offline bigdare23

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 06:13:59 pm »
Why not break it in with the turbo?
-1988 CRX Si v2.0 coming soon

Offline Thundercat

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 06:19:54 pm »
no there's not .....that's my preferred method of breaking in the motor on turbo'd motor
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Offline SmokeyJ

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 06:35:31 pm »
Why not break it in with the turbo?

because I had a buddy just spend over 10 stacks on a 240 build he was breaking motor in with turbo and it blew with in 4 days of him getting car back

Offline SmokeyJ

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 06:38:27 pm »
no there's not .....that's my preferred method of breaking in the motor on turbo'd motor

Oka cool  ;D just trying to be sure

Offline rbwdriven

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 08:29:28 pm »
because I had a buddy just spend over 10 stacks on a 240 build he was breaking motor in with turbo and it blew with in 4 days of him getting car back

Yeah but if your driving like an arse hat that will happen.

do it the easy way you can always turn the boost down with a controlle r and drive it like that.

With the svo's that is how the guys do it.

Turn it down so it is barely boosting like 2-5 psi and break motor in.

Offline Bus Driver J

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 08:35:06 pm »
Yeah but if your driving like an arse hat that will happen.

X2

I build turbo cars for a living, just throw it on and dont be a stupid ricer for a while and youre fine.
Quote from: cbeengineering
trying to be cool by having a "ole skoo" car, I guess.


Offline Scotsman

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 09:45:14 pm »
i dont think SJ has been clear , right now there is no turbo kit , is it gonna hurt his motor to run it without any turbo apps ?

Offline rbwdriven

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 09:52:25 pm »
This is my first fresh turbo car. I have a low compressi on motor that is fresh (0 miles). I wanted to break it in before put turbo on it. Will this harm anything


According to what I read.  He is gonna break in the motor then put the turbo on.

If he does not have all the turbo stuff ready then just break the motor in.

If he has all the turbo stuff plus apps then break motor in with turbo just dial boost down.

Offline Scotsman

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 10:17:11 pm »
so it is safe to DD the motor with no turbo stuff , as long as he doesnt dog it?

Offline Bus Driver J

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2011, 12:10:27 am »
Yeah what he said. Doesnt matter if it has a turbo on it or not for break-in.
Quote from: cbeengineering
trying to be cool by having a "ole skoo" car, I guess.


Offline SmokeyJ

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 12:33:43 pm »
oka, thats what I wanted to know. I have majority of turbo stuff just not everythin g. My funds have gotten lower than I like since I am taking care of two house holds now. Also I have a heavy foot I just dont want to chance it.

Offline bigdare23

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 03:06:25 pm »
Are you getting tuned? I would recommend getting tuned if you're going to DD since the motor isn't stock.
-1988 CRX Si v2.0 coming soon

Offline Black R

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 05:52:39 pm »
First things first:

Tow car with zero miles on it to dyno tuner.

Break it in on the dyno.

If you don't (na or fi doesn't matter), then you will likely damage the motor from the get-go.

Base maps are just a guess.

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=878397

Quote from: earl;9966118
One of the most asked questions is how do I break in my new motor? The short answer is that no break-in is necessary . The only thing that is necessary is to seat the rings. All clearance s and fitments should be perfect after blueprint ing and precision assembly. So how many miles do you have to drive it to seat the rings? The cylinders are round, the rings are round, the bore is freshly honed and therefore your engine should be ready for tuning immediate ly. They will continue to seat better over a short period of time but you should be ready to go tune  right away.

Do I need to drive it 500 miles before I tune it? Absolutel y not. How about 50 miles? No. Perhaps the best thing to do is to drive it all the way to your trailer and tow it to a competent tuner. In second position on the “things NOT to do list” is trying to break in an un-tuned engine by driving it. Too lean an air/fuel will begin to heat and distort parts, too rich will wash the oil off the cylinders causing premature wear. What is in first place on the “things NOT to do list”? Boost on an un-tuned motor. Within 2 to 3 seconds the pistons and cylinders can be ruined.
Well I did put in a new base map or I’m just running off the stock Honda computer. Can’t I drive it like that for a few miles? I’m not even boosting. Well what is the base map? Just someone’s idea of what numbers will start your car. Just an educated guess by someone who does not have a clue what component s you are running in your set-up. It’s not intended to drive on for any extended period of time. The same with that stock Honda computer. It could be ok but it could also be dangerous ly wrong.

So what exactly do I do at the first engine start-up? Pull the spark plugs and crank the motor with your starter for a maximum of 30 seconds or until you see the oil pressure gauge begin to register. Re-install the plugs and wires and fire up that candle. While keeping one eye on the oil pressure gauge, use your other eye to scan for fuel leaks. If there are no fuel leaks, look under the motor for any major oil or coolant leaks. If that is ok, run the engine for 5 to 10 minutes while keeping an eye on the temperatu re and pressure gauges. Keep the rpm’s between 1000-3000. Shut the engine down and double-check everythin g. You are now ready for tuning.

But my engine was already tuned from my previous set-up. Well, what happened to your previous set-up? Did you melt a stock piston or crack a cylinder? No problem because now you have forged pistons and sleeves? Wrong. Although you now have stronger component s that will take more abuse, you are still not right on your air fuel mixture. Get that thing tuned properly ASAP.

OK, I did it my way instead of yours and now I’m burning a lot of oil. What happened? Well basically you scarred up the skirt of the piston, messed up the surface of the cylinder wall and maybe even egg shaped the cylinder. New pistons are tapered smaller on the top to larger at the bottom of the skirt. Your piston to wall clearance is measured at the bottom of the skirt. As the engine warms up to operating temperatu re, the upper portion of the piston begins to expand slightly. The bottom of the skirt does not expand much. When you boost in a lean condition, the upper part of the piston expands quickly. Since the ring land area is cut smaller than the tapered skirt below it, the first part of the piston that pushes into the cylinder wall is just below the oil ring. Thus you will see the worst scarring on your piston right under the ring lands where the excess heat is the highest



The more heat that is generated, the harder the piston pushes into the cylinder wall. The uninforme d would blame the piston damage on bad piston to wall clearance . Untrue. If that were the problem, the damage would show up at the very bottom of the skirt. What has happened is that you have expanded your piston to the point that it has just ground itself into the cylinder wall. Keep expanding the piston by super heating it and it will push your cylinder egg shaped and maybe even balloon out the cylinder slightly. At the same time this is happening, your ring lands will begin to distort to where they will never seal properly again. Sometimes after doing this, the engine will still run but it will be a smoker. This all happens in a few seconds of high boost with a lean air fuel ratio. Also it can happen from 500 freeway miles of driving where the tune up is off enough to build excess heat at a slower rate, thus doing the same damage over a longer period of time…but the end results are the same. Death to your pistons and cylinder walls.

OK, I’m just going to turn the fuel pressure way up and run extra fat, that way I won’t hurt anything. If you run too rich, you will “wash out” the rings. First, excess fuel will run down the cylinders taking the lubricati ng oil with it. This promotes direct metal-to-metal contact between the rings and the cylinder wall. This contact does several things. The upper ring begins to wear quickly. The middle ring is actually designed as a tapered oil scraper (it is not used for compressi on control at all) and the taper will begin to wear down to where it becomes flat rather than angled. When that happens, it can no longer control oil away from the combustio n chamber. The last thing that happens is that pretty cross hatch design begins to wear off of the cylinder wall. While most people think that the cross hatch is there to help seat the rings, it also has a secondary purpose. That is to hold microscop ic amounts of oil in the grooves to help lubricate ring to cylinder walls. With the walls smooth and no oil control help from the middle ring and a tired upper ring, oil will begin to mix with fuel in the combustio n chamber. When this happens, your 93 octane fuel probably hits a value of about 80. Then detonatio n comes into play and begins to beat holes in the pistons, among other things.

So whom can I blame for this mess? The blind machinist that honed my piston to wall clearance? That poor quality Brand X piston manufactu rer? The idiot pro engine builder that assembled my block? My ex-friend that helped me put this all together? Those ignorant engineers that gave me a bad base map with my engine managemen t system? The guy on the internet message board whose buddy knows that it takes at least 1000 miles of break in before you can tune an engine properly? All of the above? Probably none of the above. Go look in a mirror and ask…who started this engine and had no idea what the air fuel ratio was? Who just wanted to jump on it one time to see if it would haul? Who didn’t know that their injectors were at 100% duty cycle at 4000 rpm but they wanted to see how it would run at 6000 rpm? Why it was you. Get that thing tuned right away. You will notice that the more you drive a tuned motor, the stronger it will feel. This is just the rings seating in their final 5-10% as they thank you for tuning first.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 06:04:37 pm by Black R »

Offline SmokeyJ

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Re: BOOST QUESTION
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2011, 11:58:04 am »
Are you getting tuned? I would recommend getting tuned if you're going to DD since the motor isn't stock.

Im not planning on dd it but I am going to get it tuned


 

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